How Hotels Can Grow Revenue Without Sacrificing Guest Experience | Benjamin Seelos, VP Client Solutions APAC of Frontline Performance Group | EP13

Justin (: 00:00

let me make sure it's recording. All right. Okay.

Benjamin (: 00:02

There you go.

Justin (: 00:11

Okay, cool. I think we are all set here. Settings are all good. And we can start. Okay, here we go. all right. And sorry. Okay, here we go. And three. sorry, let's make sure. Okay. Three, two, one. Benjamin, welcome to the Curious Concierge Thank you so much for spending some time with me today.

Benjamin (: 00:15

It's recording. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (: 00:40

Thank you, Justin. Very excited to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Justin (: 00:43

Absolutely. Well, I'm really excited for this discussion because you do some really interesting things. But before we talk about, you know, selling, performance, or revenue, you know, I want to begin with your own relationship with hospitality. You have worked across hotel operations, F&B luxury cruising, travel advising, and now coaching. That is a very

Benjamin (: 01:02

okay.

Justin (: 01:12

broad view, you know, of the industry. What originally pulled you into hospitality?

Benjamin (: 01:16

Yeah, exactly.

Benjamin (: 01:20

Well, to be honest, it's a little bit of a personal story. I always have been very interested in cooking since I was very, very young. and you know, with five, six, seven years old, I was already preparing some dishes and my mom actually, you know, saw a little bit of a talent in me and a little bit of passion. And so I I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do in life, right, when I was a teenager. And so she actually recommended me to join a hospitality school back home in in Austria.

And you know, I didn't think much about it. I said, yeah, sure, because I don't have any other ideas on what to do. And then therefore, you know, she helped me to sign up. And yeah, since then it was an amazing journey. I I could have never asked for for for more, to be honest. And so yeah, thanks, thanks to my mom that I'm here where I'm today. Thank you, mom.

Justin (: 02:05

Wow, okay, thank you, mom. Was there a particular moment you realized that was there a particular moment when you realized that this was more than simply a job? Was it like the people, the pace, the intensity, or you know, maybe the fact that you have the direct impact on how somebody f you know feels?

Benjamin (: 02:13

Ha ha.

Benjamin (: 02:25

Well, yeah, exactly.

Benjamin (: 02:31

yeah, absolutely. I think what what always nurtured me in hospitality is the people to people connection, the relationships that you build, right? The colleagues that you meet, the leaders you're going to encounter that you learn so much from, right? So because it's a people's first industry, right? I think this is always what has given me a lot of energy and a lot of passion to continue in this and build up my my expertise and become knowledgeable. And also to be honest, try out different industries within the industry, right?

hospitality, travel and now consulting slash hospitality technology, right? but it always has been the people's element that really made me be feel very excited about the industry and and also you know doing something special for guests. you know do something special for the holidays. It just made me feel good as a person and I feel now it's also time to give back to hospitality. That's why maybe I now go into the more coaching training element because I wanna

Really help hostels and hospitality leaders to make attractive environments again for employees to join and talents to join and say, Wow, hospitality is great and a lot of opportunities for everybody then. Yeah.

Justin (: 03:41

Absolutely. And this is a great time for folks like yourselves to remind others that hospitality is a fun, enjoyable role, right? I think a lot of us in this space is facing like hiring issues and kind of this issue with like Gen Zs and how they feel about this, you know, the hospitality industry in general.

Benjamin (: 03:57

Yes.

Benjamin (: 04:05

Yeah, absolutely. No a hundred percent. And well, but sometimes, I mean, as beautiful as it is, right? It's it's very easy to always look at luxury resorts and say, Wow, how beautiful these resorts are, right? But actually behind the scenes there's a lot of efforts that go into. But again, I think you need resilience, yeah, you need patience. but it's a beautiful rewarding industry, definitely.

Justin (: 04:24

Yeah, absolutely. And there's passion behind everything, especially in this space. Now, what I find very useful about your perspective is that you did not begin as an outside consultant, right? Observing hospitality from a distance. You worked in frontline environments where the guest interaction was immediate and you know the consequences of good or bad decisions were obviously very visible quickly.

How did those early roles shape the way you think now about service and commercial performance?

Benjamin (: 04:57

Listen.

Benjamin (: 05:03

Definitely. So I think you can only be a very good consultant or trainer if you actually know very well what you're talking about. And the best way to do that is that you actually live through the same pain points and the same challenges, and sometimes also the same headaches as as currently you know hoteliers are going through, right? At least when I connect with hoteliers and and partners, I don't just connect as a consultant. I really try to build a good rapport with them.

gain their trust, listen to their pain points, right? Because then it's also easier for them to see that there are actually opportunities that they can have control over to make improvements. Because I think a really good let's say brand ambassador or consultant or salesperson, you cannot really sell a solution. You have to reach that emotional level where you know eventually your prospects can tell you actually what they face currently and then they will answer

the solution by themselves anyway, right? So that's that's what I do. I try to make it very net in a very natural way. But yeah definitely my my my background in operations helps to connect

Justin (: 06:10

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one thing is not just your background, but your global perspective, right? You have worked across Europe to China, Singapore, and you know, the broader broader Asia-Pacific region. And obviously hospitality may be a global industry, but the language of service is not always that universal. And I think

Benjamin (: 06:37

Colapsa dando ele.

Justin (: 06:38

Right. And so I'm curious to hear how has working across different cultures changed the way you approach frontline or in general performance?

Benjamin (: 06:51

Yeah, it's a it's a very good question. and you know, I I also worked for many years in South America. I mean, that's really where I started to to grow up in this industry. I I was lucky enough to start it with four seasons as a as a MIT, which is their management internal training program pro program ship. I was very young. I I got my first assistant manager role when I was like about 22 years old. and I guess one thing that that that

That taught me, especially my first engagement as or my first role as an assistant manager, managing a larger team. And you know, many of the employees were the age of my of my dad at that time, right? Like 30, 40 years old, was that I cannot be try act smart. I have to be very humble, I have to be seen as as a leader that supports the team, that also puts in even more efforts, that is willing to you know pick up dirty dishes, etc. etc. So I guess the one thing that that

That everything taught me was really to to make sure that you have a very humble approach to to the job where you are in. Yes, of course, you know, people hire you as a manager because they believe that you have skills and knowledges that others don't have. That's fine. But you don't have to show it off in in in an arrogant way. You you gotta really get to know your team members, you gotta pace yourself a little bit. and you gotta really make sure that you're building that relationship with the team and you know, building up trust really takes time, especially in Asia, it takes a little bit longer.

and and yeah, obviously when you come to Asia, especially to China, I mean you can forget a lot of you can forget about a lot of management techniques from from from the Western hemisphere, right? Like empowerment, open communications. It's just that sometimes that's not so applicable in in in in in in places like in China, for example, right? So you just gotta find a good balance. But you you really should observe more, listen more, right? but then also make

sure that you take decisions because at the end of the day you're responsible for business, you're responsible to deliver results. but yeah, I guess it's it's that combination of having that that fine fine tune, having that that sense of, you know, understanding when to push and and and how to, you know, also say no when when when you have to, right? I guess that's that's something very important. That's something that you that everybody should learn over the time also. Yeah.

Justin (: 09:06

Yeah, absolutely. I think that EQ, the finger on the pulse of knowing when to react, what to say, those things are very global in terms of instilling that sort of training, but it can be so different culturally, like how you approach someone and the tone and voice. but before we get into all of that, why don't we dial it back just a tad bit and why don't you share with us what you do?

Benjamin (: 09:30

Yeah, yeah.

Justin (: 09:35

I just got too excited and said like, Hey, like in and wanted to learn a little bit more about your thoughts. But before we get into all of that, why don't you share what you do and kind of like your day to day.

Benjamin (: 09:50

Yeah, perfect. So in my day today, I'm the Vice President for Frontline Performance Group for client solutions in Asia Pacific. I'm leading a small but very, very powerful and efficient team of client solutions leaders across Asia Pacific. and what frontline performance does is we provide a very powerful training, consulting and also performance management solutions so that hotels can improve.

Today, what we call total revenue per available room. Maximize the value of the guests by making sure making sure that your frontline teams are well trained, are confident, have all the right tools in order to perform well, and therefore also maximise the revenue that the hotel can can generate. Yeah. my day to day looks like that in the morning I tend to have calls with Australia and Japan because they're behind. Then I fly over to China or to other places in Southeast Asia.

Yeah, depending on where the clients are based. Sometimes I end up with some calls in Europe or in the Americas. So yeah, it's it's quite diverse, I would say, my my days. But I try to also be as much as possible on site to meet face to face because hospitality is a relationship business, and sometimes you gotta meet people also on site. I just came back from Jakarta where we had a great meeting and engagement with hotel leaders, Bangkok. then we'll go soon back to Singapore.

So it's it's really important to also be on the ground so people can get to meet yours in person. and then once you have a relationship, yeah, it's obviously easier to then think about progressing in in certain projects.

Justin (: 11:28

Right. That's sounds like a very fun job, but I'm sure it's tiring to be on the road and you're meeting a ton of people, but that's part of it. And during this process too, you're not only meeting, but you're training, you're empowering folks, which I think is the most exciting part of your role. So, you know, as you empower folks to increase revenue per available, you know, per room, commercial teams.

Benjamin (: 11:38

Yeah yeah.

Justin (: 11:56

are taught to maximize value, right? But hospitality professionals might be more advised to protect the guest experience. At what point do you realize that those two objectives, you know, may clash?

Benjamin (: 12:14

Yeah, yeah. well, it's interesting because in our world, actually, we we frame that opportunity and we say it's actually not a good guest experience if you don't recommend your guests your best products that you have, or if you recommend your guests the best spa treatments that you have, or that you recommend your guests your signature restaurants that you have, right? So in our space where we are from, it's a very common objection sometimes that we hear that we prefer to focus on service, not so much on revenue.

But where we are from, and we have been doing this for over 30 years, with a very clear standpoint, we say service and revenue, they both go hand in hand. You simply help your guests to buy more by giving them a reason to upgrade the room category, by giving them a reason to purchase a nice bottle of wine, because they want to have a better time at your hotel or at your resort. So that's how we try to overcome and educate leaders by reframing that opportunity so that they're not stuck in between those two poles, which, yeah, if if you look at it.

Perhaps some some might might think that's clashing, but in our space it's not. It goes it has to go hand in hand actually.

Justin (: 13:18

Right. It's reframing and the whole packaging of of when you deliver that message, right? And I suppose the commercial teams, hotels spend so much time and money trying to acquire that guest. You know, they get you know, they manage distributions, they might negotiate commissions, you adjust rates, right? And you're always competing for loyalty. But after all of that effort, the guests, you know, arrives.

Benjamin (: 13:26

Exactly. Hundred percent.

Benjamin (: 13:36

yeah, a lot. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 13:47

on site and and might become surprised sorry that they arrive on site and sometimes may be surprised that the experience itself is not really there. Why do so many hotels, you know, underinvest in what happens after arrival or kind of during that check-in process? They're so focused on acquiring that they kind of forget that initial first impression moment.

Benjamin (: 14:15

Yeah, it's a very good question. I guess a hotel has several reasons why they believe they don't want to focus on frontline revenues, for example, starting with a front desk, right? and a lot of times I think as a as a as a business coach also, right? I would say that a lot of hotelier leaders they fall into the trap of I call it excuses, right? It's when you try to focus more on excuses and on the problem rather than on the opportunities, right?

So when we speak with the hotelier and they say, yeah, for us it's not possible to drive, let's say, frontline revenues, incremental revenues because our guests don't have budget, because maybe our room times are not good enough, because this, because of that. But actually, w the more you hear to this, the more then I try to reframe this and tell them that actually everything that they're mentioning to me right now are the opportunities to make improvements, right? Because if the guests you know, don't don't perceive

Value in the offerings, then maybe the offer itself has an issue. That the fact that you don't have maybe the biggest and most important room differentiations in place, then maybe that's the opportunity to refine the dialogue of the frontline team so they know exactly how to recommend features and benefits. And maybe you want to think about and you know, enhancing the value of a room category by including a package, including a spa treatment, including a little food and beverage experience, right? So

In every kind of situation, there's always an opportunity. So what I'm trying to coach and teach a lot of hoteliers is actually don't stay stuck in your exquisities. Yeah. Try we are here to overcome this together. We are here to help you out because a lot of other hotels in the same market had the same challenges at the beginning. And then through training, through mindset work, also many times it's it's a mindset consideration as well, right?

Then we help them out and and today they continue to have a very healthy performance. They have better stuff at the front desk and food and beverage. They maximize the value with the guests. They have better QPs from coming from that result because people simply are more revenue focused, yeah. so it's it's sometimes a transformational process. But that's also the beauty of the job because you really gotta educate and you really gotta consult hoteliers about about the opportunity. So that's what I also enjoy the most.

Benjamin (: 16:36

And the more you tell me that you cannot do something, the more I'm like, I I I know you can be successful, but I really get excited about because it's like a like a good challenge, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Justin (: 16:38

Yeah.

Justin (: 16:44

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, you were saying that there were two buckets. typically it's perhaps someone that might be more afraid and timid for selling something because mm, you know, maybe internally it's not set up correctly. The other one could be perhaps different, you know, incentive programs or perhaps different kind of focuses. And that's why the broader, you know, conversation frontline isn't really directed to generating that potential incremental revenue. So

Benjamin (: 17:07

Okay.

Justin (: 17:17

Do you see most like if you had to bucket or you know create a small pie chart, what are some different percentages of issues that you typically see? you know, is it 30% mostly afraid and timid because programming might not be good? 50% because maybe incentives or maybe the change management of a new thing is not aligned. Like, how does that typically look like for you when you're traveling around?

Benjamin (: 17:49

Yeah, so it's a very good question. So for food and beverage and and front desk departments and operations, yeah, typically the issues of not having a solid frontline performance is because of the results of three missing things. Yeah. A is set divide expectations to the team members, yeah, so that there's more accountability. Because if there's no accountability, then why should an agent try to perform better? Why should a server go

try to go above and beyond to, you know, drive that average checks, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Second one is the skill level, obviously, right? So if you have accountability, then comes the skill level. Some of the employees nowadays, especially when they're young, you mentioned it before the Gen Z generation, for example, maybe they don't know how to recommend a premium product. They're not confident about it. Or sometimes we're dealing with places where, you know, the products are very expensive and if simply because of the price and the value that the products have, the agents feel very

uncomfortable in asking or recommending because of these high-ticket items, right? So it's definitely skills, confidence. And the third one is incentives. By incentives, usually hotels tend to pay out incentives and they also certainly look into more and more ways to get server incentives as well. So that there's something also motivational for server. But usually when it comes to incentives, there are only a few members in a team that get it, that really earn good money from it, right? But because there's no accountability to begin with,

The others wouldn't even try it out, wouldn't even try to put in more efforts to maybe earn that extra dollar or that extra RB or that extra Indonesian rupiah, right? Because they they just think that there's there's there's no there's no expectations from a from a manager. So for us, really, it's not just a solution and a tech platform that we give, it's really an entire transformation change process that really starts with the leadership. And this is where we need to wear our consulting and training head to say, okay.

Mr. or Mrs. General Manager, if you want your frontline team to perform well, it really starts with you at the top. Do you want to set the expectations to your team or not? Do you have an expectations to your team or not? Because if you don't have any expectations, then maybe people will not be held accountable for it, right? So that's the first question that we ask. What's your expectations? And if you do have an expectations to your team, then we can support you with training. But then guess what? If you set the expectations,

Benjamin (: 20:10

There's automatic automatically more motivation for the team members to achieve those results. Yeah. And then they will put in also more efforts to learn and to be trained and to maybe ask their colleagues that are doing very well what is the secret sources? Because maybe they wanna apply it also for for themselves, right? So everything starts with accountability. Everything starts with setting these expectations. And then of course comes the skill level as well, right? You wanna train the skills.

you wanna make sure that people go through individual coaching, not just generic coachings, right? Because everybody has different needs and requirements. But when it comes to accountability, also I just wanted to add on it's also important to recognize. Yeah. So recognize means that you wanna set the expectations, somebody underperforming, you need to help them to account. But actually, if they exceed the expectations, then recognize them. But you gotta make that in public, the Asian way, right? Praise them in public, everybody will be excited, lots of face for everybody. And then comes the money.

Justin (: 21:00

Mm.

Benjamin (: 21:06

Right, the monetary award. It's becoming more and more important. I mean, why would you not want as a as a general manager, why would you not want to give more earning potential to your team members, to your employees, if their entry level level salaries are actually so low sometimes? Why don't you want to create an environment where you can create a win-win situation whereby you give them the opportunity to learn better skills with us, you give them the opportunity to have better tools and to earn incentives? All they need to do is take better care of your guests.

Take better care of you know, recommending the right products and services to the guests, drive that additional revenue with the guests, yeah, so that the employees can simply earn a little bit more money because the cost of living goes up everywhere. So, as an hotelier, why don't you want to create this opportunity for your employees? And they will appreciate it forever because employees they see and they sense that in our culture, right? If they learn skills, right, and if they also have earning potential.

based on their own individual efforts. So the more and the better they perform, the more maybe they can earn as well in as a server and as a as a front desk agent. Why wouldn't you want to do that? Why wouldn't you want to stay then working for this employer for a long, many, many, many years? Because the culture is better. And and that's what we're trying to solve. And and this is actually our our whole sole purpose. And that's the mission that we carry with every single day talking to our clients.

Justin (: 22:25

I think these are elements that a lot of people forget. The simple things of expectations, alignment, certain metrics, right? That people should align themselves and then being held accountable for. So we talked a little bit about kind of the KPIs, I suppose, that folks need to be held to. But I would love to also understand when you first look at a hotel, where do you also find the typical

Benjamin (: 22:39

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 22:52

Biggest missed opportunities aside from, you know, these kind of core metrics that you should be assigning staff. Is it a front desk? Is it during your pre-arrival communication? Is it inside F&B at the spa? Like are there low-hanging fruits that you typically see when it comes to missed opportunities?

Benjamin (: 23:15

Yeah, so the biggest missed opportunity is when a front desk employee, a front desk agent, for example, doesn't make an offer, doesn't recommend anything. That's already the biggest one single missed opportunities. Of course, you have different touch points in a guest journey, right? You have the booking journey, you have the pre-arvival journey, you have the in the guest checking in journey, the in-stay journey, etc. There are different touch points going on, but the biggest missed opportunities is always when there is an interaction happening between an agent.

At the front desk or a server and and the guest, yeah. And we are here to help employees to make these conversations more profitable for the guests, for the businesses, yeah. So that the guests are very happy to spend more and getting a good time in exchange, right? So for us, really, is the guest interaction. Whenever you have a one on one interaction, is these moments which is the biggest moments of truth because guests don't not everybody read you pre arrival emails, not everybody wants to get these automated WhatsApp.

Messages. Not everybody wants to download your app to book a a spa or a room service. But hey, if I arrive at a property and they tell me about all the amazing, you know, premium room types that they have, better experiences, spa services, food and beverage, and maybe make me a real offer that makes sense to me doesn't mean a a long check-in process, it's just very natural in a conversation like like you and me having it, right? But if that if the agents are a little bit trained, if they understand a little bit buying signals from the guests, etc.

Making these moments really, you know, commercially positive for hotel businesses is a win-win for everybody. And so these are the biggest opportunities missed out because again, you know, guests travel from very far. You mentioned hotels spend a lot of money to acquire guests. So the question is for GM, you know, once the guest arrives at your doors, what is it that you do or what is it that you want your team to make in order to increase the value of your guests? Are you okay that the the guests stay in their, you know, deluxe room that they book?

And nothing else, and at the same time you have many suites still empty and available. Are you okay that maybe the Frontesk team doesn't make any single offer? Or also in restaurants, are you okay for the guests to raise their hand in order to take to make an order and the server not recommending any items, not being incentivized, not being empowered, not even having this expectations set? So these are all the opportunities that that we see is is completely missed in in many places, and that's exactly the gap we're trying to close.

Justin (: 25:39

Before we dive into selling, because I do feel like it's a very hot topic, right? Is it is it too much when you upsell? How do you upsell well? and those conversations are very unique and it has to be very careful. But you know, the hotel industry always speaks about RevPAR, right? It's one of the most used metrics in this business. RevPAR does not necessarily tell us.

Benjamin (: 25:51

Yeah, yeah.

Justin (: 26:07

How valuable the guest becomes once they are inside the property? They just tell us how much typically a room rate or kind of the typical revenue you're generating from a guest. Now, two guests may pay the same room rate, but one person might dine in the restaurant, visit the spa, or you know, book hotel transportation, while the other is perhaps on business. They're just in and out. Why does the industry still so focus?

Benjamin (: 26:16

Yeah yeah.

Exactly.

Justin (: 26:36

Focus so heavily on room revenue rather than total revenue per guest.

Benjamin (: 26:44

I think the industry is changing now. I think there's much more awareness anyway coming up now about total revenue per available room, which is the famous acronym called TREF Bar. I think this is more and more now becoming a a hot topic, and this is why a lot of also tech solutions that focus on digitizing guest experiences, yeah, anyway start to focus on, right? so that guests can book all these restaurants, bar services, etc., also on site.

when they want to, that there are pre-arvival offers made, et cetera, et cetera. So I think there's more awareness now about about that. However, there's a lot of focus on automation. Yeah. So because as an hotelier, you have to understand that we have all of hoteliers have been through a lot during the pandemic, right? And sometimes we we tend to prefer to take the easier route of maybe trying out is automation, the hoping that it would work very well and it will solve my problems. But actually

They maybe can support it, but they don't. They won't bring they won't move the needle as much as simply an engaged and motivated team, right? Being in place. So mm, whilst the industry talks a lot about traff bar and total value available rooms and and increasing their guest spend, at the same time, what the industry doesn't do, however, is that they don't tend to talk too much about what can we do to engage better with the employees so that they can also help to generate and drive more of these values.

And that's why I think is a complete a gap in in the in the market. And that's why I believe what we do is completely unique because nobody else trains and motivates and shows hotel so much to really have a great workforce than than what we do it and how we do it. And so I think that's that's the real gap and that's what the industry is not talking too much about.

Justin (: 28:28

Definitely. Well, the word selling, going back into it, you know, still makes many hospitality professionals uncomfortable, right? People often enter the industry because they want to care for others and not because they want to feel like a salesperson. Why does this discomfort remain so strong, right? Is it a fear of rejection? Is it a cultural issue since we're in Asia? Or

Benjamin (: 28:33

Yeah.

Benjamin (: 28:46

Yeah yeah.

Justin (: 28:57

have hotels, you know, perhaps simply taught employees to think of selling as a pressure point rather than part of the service.

Benjamin (: 29:10

Yeah, exactly. So I mean every every hotel and every hotelier is has has a unique I would say, roadblock when when it comes to that, right? And many times it's really a mindset situation that they face, right? some hotels, again, I think what what what what they focus on or what they fear a lot is f from the employee perspective, is the rejection itself, right? I don't wanna make an offer because I'm worried that the guest says no, right? and maybe on on a hotel level perspective.

Same to your point, they might think that we should not sell or encourage our team to sell because we don't want our team to become pushy. We don't want our team to become salesy. You know, nobody wants to be sold to, right? So then I always say, well, let's just avoid the word selling, right? If you don't like the word selling, just eliminate from the vocabulary. It sounds easy, right? But all we really hear is to provide the best service to your guests and recommend them services and products that make sense, that maybe they appreciate to hear about, right?

So we give simple examples. For example, if if there's a honeymoon and you know you arrive at a beautiful resort and they booked an entry level room category, not the nice ocean view that many people comment about, right? I don't think honestly it's a good service to not let them aware that at least you have a beautiful ocean view room available with a nice sunset, with maybe two washroom two two two sinks which is fed up for couples, with some features and benefits of the rooms, right?

I don't think it's a good service not to let them know about this, right? Because at the end of the day, let them decide whether they want to enhance the experience or not, right? And if they say no to it for any reasons, that's also okay. But the guests won't feel pressured. So we certainly don't teach team members to push for sales. We teach them to recommend, which is very, very different, right? And in the food and beverage setting, the same way. If if that same couple then goes to a restaurant, fine dining restaurant, I don't think it's it's providing good service.

By not recommending two glasses of champagne, for example, as an apéritif because they're celebrating in honeymoon. Why don't you want to allow them to celebrate at the restaurant dining venue, right? Why don't you wanna maybe offer the premium you know sharing platter that so they can enjoy a beautiful dinner together because maybe it's romantic and many couples actually give us wonderful feedback, right? why don't you want your guests to experience that, right? So it really comes down to

Benjamin (: 31:35

If if if you have a problem with the word selling, yeah, then just don't think about selling. Think about being a brand ambassador. And what does brand ambassador do? They really w just want to make sure that you have the best time of your life so that you're maybe gonna come back, you maybe sign up for that loyalty program, you're maybe gonna leave a nice Google review, right? So this is what our program is about. We don't teach selling as per se, but we teach obviously the process behind because every sales has a process that doesn't change necessarily. It's about

Fact finding about how to build rapport with your guests. It's about how to recommend premium products and services. It just follows the same process. You can call it sales process, but the way how you deliver it is is very different. It's very natural. It's it's very ambassador style. So yeah, that's that's what we teach. But yeah, to your point, a lot of hoteliers fear that, yeah, we don't want to sell to our clients. We are afraid of doing that. But you're afraid of what? Why are you afraid? About what exactly, right? Nobody will complain that, gosh, that agent

offered me a a beautiful view because they thought for my honeymoon I should take it. I would rather complain about it. No, you know when they would rather complain is when they find out after they stay that you have a beautiful ocean view suite. They find out only after and they will say, Well nobody told me about it. You see? That's the difference.

Justin (: 32:47

Right. I absolutely agree. And it you're so right. It can genuinely improve the guest experience, right? When there's a major difference when someone is saying, Would you like to pay more for a better room? Or saying, Hey, you're traveling with a family with children. I think you may generally benefit from additional space if you were to get the suite instead of the deluxe room. Right. And so

It's all about messaging and having the confidence to actually say it. And I think that the point that you're making too is getting rid of the term selling, owning the whole experience as an ambassador and pushing forward that experience, right? Because at the end of the day, it will create a better experience for the customer. but when does it cross the line? When does the recommendation become

Benjamin (: 33:18

Exactly.

Benjamin (: 33:34

Exactly. Exactly.

Justin (: 33:40

you know, maybe too intrusive, manipulative, or, you know, maybe inappropriate.

Benjamin (: 33:47

That's a very good question. and and this is obviously where I think leaders, yeah, obviously because they are there on site, they need to continue obviously to observe the the the employees, right? Because they sometimes need to stand next to them, they have to observe, etc. etc. But the way how we train it is certainly not a a manipulative way of selling or convincing anybody to sign up for for premium experience. it's very simple.

What we tell everybody is you can only generate more income for yourself, yeah. Once the hotels sign up, we teach employees obviously on how they can earn more money as well. We teach them also the incentive plan, yeah. But we also teach them that you can only earn more money if you follow our recommendations, if you follow our dialogues, if you follow our structure. Yeah. If you go away from that, you might not be able to earn that much. So actually, we have never I honestly in these three years now that I'm with FPG, I've we have I have

Never really come across that problem. One opportunity, however, and again I reframed that as opportunity. Justin is another hotel that we work with in Singapore. actually, the team became I could say aggressive in a good way towards the management because they really want to earn extra money.

They really want to work in the better shifts. They really wanna work when they have a lot of arrivals because they know they can earn more incentives. Yeah. So suddenly the management team, but they told me as a as a as a good way, they were suddenly encountered with a highly motivated frontline team. that you know, everybody wanted to work on on on the weekends, everybody wanted to work doing the best shifts. And so that's but again, we we saw this as a as a great opportunity because suddenly you you you move away from demotivated employees towards people that

really wanna work and people really getting sad but they don't work the best shifts, right? So I mean that's great. I think that's a very good problem to have, right?

Justin (: 35:42

Yeah, definitely. And it sounds like this hotel, everyone, I mean, there's obviously different hotels have different expectations when the frontline employee is expected to sell or not. But in this situation, I think you're, you know, really making the experience better. I'm really curious, given this you know, it's an art, right? You guys are teaching something that is hard to grasp.

Benjamin (: 36:00

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Justin (: 36:07

Sometimes. So I would love to maybe put this in a you know scenario, right? Like take us inside the the most the excellent front desk interaction, right? So let's say a guest arrives and the employee believes that maybe a different room or a you know a specific experience is valuable for the customer. What should the employee notice first? Like what should they ask? What should they say?

Benjamin (: 36:34

Yeah, yeah.

Justin (: 36:36

You know, or avoid saying what are some of your tips and tricks when you know quickly analyzing the customer that's coming in.

Benjamin (: 36:46

Yeah, yeah. I can give you one very simple and very useful trick here, which is a buying signal to understand when a guest arrives, for example, at the front desk, when they ask, what room type am I in? Right? If they ask this question, for example, then you should already know that this guest is very interested to make sure that they are staying in the right and appropriate room category, right? And it's then when of course you can confirm back the existing room category, but you can then also

Try to offer an enhancement by simply asking, for example, would you like to enhance your experience with us? Right? If you find out it's all I think the one of the most so we we we have different steps in our service-based sales concept. Yeah. So the first step is building rapport. The second step is some fact-finding. So if you get the second step specifically, right? Because I think building rapport, everybody can at the front desk. Everybody knows that they have to greet and smile to the guests and ask them a question: hey, is it your first time in town? Or hey.

Is it is it your first time to Singapore? And it's on the second step, fact-finding, where we encourage and we teach the front desk agents to actually find out why they are, for example, at at the property. Is it the first time to Singapore, right? Because only when you do some fact finding, you can then recommend the appropriate product. So if you find out, for example, somebody actually comes on a business trip and they and and he or she is booked on a deluxe room that maybe is a little bit small and doesn't have a desk.

and it's staying maybe for four nights or five nights, which in a city is considered long-stay guests. Then why wouldn't the front desk agent want to then recommend perhaps a club a executive floor room category, which is maybe a little bit bigger, has a little desk where a proper traveler can work after they have a full day of meetings. And by the way, they could also then, if they want to have a meeting or they wanna have an afternoon tea or a snack, they can enjoy the executive lounge which is included in that upgrade. Yeah.

To enhance and and make simply their their work life a little bit more balanced when when they're here on a business trip. Yeah. So it's all these kind of ticks, tips and tricks that we teach them. But it all really starts with building a good rapport and then also do the right fact-finding because then you can recommend the appropriate product. And it's the same in a restaurant. When we teach a server to really drive the average check per per the the average revenue per guest or the average spend per guest, it's really about engaging with the guests.

Benjamin (: 39:06

And try to find out about what what they like, right? any any fo any any dietary requirements that they have, any special occasions that they're here for. Just engage in some small talk, right? Be interested in them. and then you can recommend and suggest the appropriate dishes, right? Appetizers that maybe so many guests say that they are that they give lots of credits to the chef.

Signature dishes that maybe the guests don't know they exist, and everybody loves to have the chef's signature dish because it's supposed to be the sh the best dish that you have in a restaurant, right? So it's all about this engagement. And and how do you make sure that server engage and front desk agents engage with every single guest? Is by again making sure that you set the right expectations, making sure that you provide ongoing training and coaching, and also give them the right visibility where they can measure the performance of the impact. And this way.

The combination of training, consulting and performance measurement allows any restaurant and hotel setting front desk to have a very consistent frontline revenue generating system in place. Which then, of course, today with artificial intelligence, something that we are also building up, will be supported by AI coaching so that individual employees get better coaching support as well to improve their skill levels. So it's it's it's it's kind of easy to digest dialogues that we teach, but it's more about not teaching them just one time, but

It's it's actually and this is the harder part, how to make it consistent so that the the the employees not do it just one time, but they do it throughout, whenever they work, every shift with every single guest

Justin (: 40:39

Right. And I think you said something that really stuck with me because I'm sure all of us have dined in a restaurant. And you're right. I don't know if our servers are really getting to know us. For example, you know, it's typical that seafood, perhaps on a menu, is a little bit more expensive than other dishes. Why don't you ask, hey, are you know, do you like seafood? You know, understanding like, do you like seafood and trying to push them for these dishes?

feel like it's not being done enough or done at all. And I you know, it just occurred to me that those are simple things that if I were a diner and you somehow convinced me 'cause my favorite dishes are, you know, it's a seafood, I would like order that, right? And that's not really being done. Yeah.

Benjamin (: 41:21

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I can I can tell you the other side of that. So in a restaurant setting, for example, and and I'm sure Hong Kong you have it a lot of times in Singapore, certainly you have it, when you go even to a luxury hotel where you pay, you know, $10, $12 for your coffee, right? The service is friendly and obviously professional, but it's not really effective from a revenue perspective, right? Because many times it's only a order taking process. It's only an order taking relationship between the server and the guest, right?

So whenever you come you know to a restaurant in the morning, and last time I sat down had a meeting at one of the really, really nice high-end resorts in in Orchard, and just sat down for for for in the morning at the at the bar, the server came over and you know asked us what we would like to have. Right? I mean that's it's it's it's okay to ask, right? It's better than than just waiting for the guests to raise the hand. But how about to recommending that the hotel has mi has actually very fresh bakeries from in the morning and we have a

Justin (: 42:10

Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (: 42:19

A new croissant, you know, would you like to have one? Or even if I order coffee, then why would you not want to ask me if I would like to have maybe some water, right? Which I also asked in in that situation, I said, Yeah, I would like to have a coffee and and and the server asked me if I would like to have some water, and I said yes, please. Hopefully waiting for the server to ask me if I want to have sparkling or still water, but back came the coffee and came the famous ice water, which is free of charge, right? So why wouldn't the server want to

Offer me still or sparkling water. And then also because it was ten in the morning, why wouldn't the server want to offer me maybe a breakfast menu? no, I already had breakfast, thank you. okay, but just we also have some small bites if you want to, some fresh fruits or something. Maybe I would consider that because I love fruits, I love healthy food anyway. So it's just about this making sure that the servers are engaged and whilst they have very good intentions and they're friendly certainly, but it just seems that they're not

part of our of a revenue system. They're not part of a of an expectations. And it's not the employees' fault. It's more of the management not really setting up these expectations and and making sure that, you know, there's a little bit more more structure in place. So I just think that this way, you know, especially restaurants also, they're leaving a lot of money on the table because it makes a difference whether you have 15 or 20% average spent per guest improvement or not, right? And it makes difference whether a good server attends you or a server that doesn't recommend you anything.

Right. So that's the th these are just the very common gaps that we see.

Justin (: 43:47

Right. And I think that makes a lot more sense when you don't have those metrics set in place, like accountability, because you you you know, I hear a lot of stories that a lot of employees resist, you know, these commercial like conversations, even when the recommendation might clearly benefit the guest, right? And so I'm curious, you know, these sort of tactics and tips are fantastic, but how much of the frontline performance is

natural ability or you know how much can it can be generally can generally be taught

Benjamin (: 44:26

So it's all we always say, you know, to have a very successful frontline revenue system in place, it's obviously a marathon and not a sprint, right? You can't expect from employees that have never upsold anything to suddenly upsell presidential suites or suddenly drive fifty percent average revenue per check improvements, right? So it's a marathon and not a sprint. It's really about providing consistency with training, coaching, feedback, yeah. But it's also really giving them the right tools.

that especially the younger generation, they love because they can download an application with us where they can see their own performance results on the application, where they can see how much incentives they're earning, but also where they can see how they stand against the other peers. Because maybe it's very good to have a little bit of peer-to-peer recognition and accountability and maybe some peer-to-peer pressure in place. Because if we are you know a restaurant of 20 servers and I encounter myself months to date on the position number eighteen, having a very low average check,

Maybe I also want to encourage myself to then go above and beyond and maybe say, okay, well, I want to make improvements to that. I can see that actually I'm I'm I'm behind the average benchmarks, I'm behind my colleagues. Maybe I want to work with my manager to make improvements. Maybe I wanna work with TechMax, which is our F&B solution, to improve to increase my my knowledge and my confidence by continuing to learn on the e-learning library. Or maybe I wanna ask my you know top-performing colleague who is great in wine sales to maybe teach me, right?

So we want to create this awareness, but also creating this accountability where the employees directly, without the managers telling them, will take actions by themselves to make performance improvements. And that's a very powerful and that's a very healthy culture that we're trying to establish at at every business that we work with.

Justin (: 46:13

So the training doesn't end just there, right? You have an app and it seems like a very safe and conducive environment to consistently push yourself and grow. but typically, you know, consultants might come in, energize the team, you know, you launch a specific type of program internally, and then within several days, behavior, you know, often returns to normal. So I'm curious how long are your typical training workshops or

you know, consulting periods like at a specific hotel. And what are some you know, what are some ways that you try to really elevate and push so that there's continuous change management happening to really up level, you know, the service quality, but also revenue.

Benjamin (: 46:59

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and I think also, that's a very good question. And and I think also the challenge sometimes that hotels or any businesses face when they get third party consultants or coaches on board is how can they measure the impact? How can they measure the quality of the training? How can they measure that there's actually a very good return of investment, right? And so what what FPG was very smart, I believe, about many years ago was that actually

FPG decided to flip the coin and say we don't want our partner hotels or partners to only depend on us, on our coaches, to always, you know, improve productivity, improve momentum, etc. etc. We need to find a way so that we can build a very solid foundation at the hotel level so that they can run their own program, they can run their own culture, they can really have it in their own hands and in their own controls. Yeah. So

This is why the company over the years invested millions of dollars in developing a proper and it's very unique to the industry performance management solution that simply allows to engage much better with all the team members. Because many times when you talk about, you know, training, consulting and and frontline revenues, yeah, sometimes the employees they actually are not being aware about their own performance results. Or maybe just today I came back from a meeting, top top

Five-star hotel in in in Bangkok and you know ask him the questions. So when when an employee underperforms, how do you provide feedback? How do you coach? Right. And they say, well, we only do that in the performance review sessions that we do twice per year. So then obviously we found out that it's maybe not enough to wait for six months to tell somebody that they need to improve in certain areas. You have to do it on a daily basis. But guess what? If management is too busy to tell the employees that there are areas of improvement.

Then this is why we developed and designed for the front desk engage specifically with that purpose so that employees have a better tool to understand how they perform and have a tool also where they can certainly take into their own hands to make improvements to their own individual performance and contribution to the business. In the same way as we did also with CheckMacs. Because when you know are restaurant managers ever sharing performance results by server levels to the actual servers, right?

Benjamin (: 49:18

So it creates that same visibility, which then creates better accountability if people have access to this information. If they have it on a beautiful presented application where they can see very clearly how they rank, how they perform. And if there's accountability and visibility, if you focus just on goal settings and on the results from a management and from the employee perspective, this alone will create and will unlock about fifty percent of your potential to drive more revenues.

Because people are more aware and people will pay more attention to continue to learn and be interested to make improvements. So and it's that culture of of performance that we impact and we transform. And yeah, it has been proven success over success with so many very, very satisfied partner hotels across Asia Pacific and actually across the world.

Justin (: 50:05

Amazing. And now maybe this happens a little bit more in Asia because language might be you know, an issue or barrier sometimes, but not just hotels, right? A lot of retail or kind of different industries often rely heavily on, you know, kind of your few natural A plus star leaders or employees, right? How do you improve the middle of the team rather than

simply always celebrating maybe the same top performers or you know, in this case, how do you keep the program motivating for someone who is improving but may never become, you know, the number one seller?

Benjamin (: 50:48

Yeah, so naturally because it's it's a team focused, it's a human focused program, naturally you will always have some they are simply doing a better job than others, right? And so what what we're trying to create a lot and what we teach also management is to really try to celebrate also baby steps. And and and by baby steps we also mean try to celebrate also small wins for your team, because if they're new wins, any small win is having a very, very positive impact on the culture, right?

As long as you you you provide continuous recognition to team members, as long as you continue to provide opportunities for them to improve their skills with us, etc. etc. Yeah, they will always find it very interesting to stay longer in that property because the culture is better, because they can learn skills ongoing and also they get a better reward system, not only from recognition, but also from from a monetary incentive perspective. Yeah. So it's that combination of

Recognition and hey, especially when you have a right tool and when even a GM comes pass by and says, Hey, Mr. Justin, last month I saw that you are the top performing server of your restaurant. I just wanted to let you know that I'm very proud of you. That goes a very long way, right? So it's always this consistent leadership support, obviously required also with with with our engagement, that allows you to create a better culture, right?

Now, down the road, you know, you will always have some people they they maybe feel bad that they cannot improve their skill levels because maybe they are really not so extraved they really find it so hard to make recommendations, etc. etc. Well, this is obviously where hospitality is nice because there's a lot of different also departments where maybe certain people's talents and strengths are more suitable in other areas, right? if somebody perhaps sorry to say, but sometimes, you know, accountants might not be the best.

people suitable for being in a customer-facing role and vice versa, right? So as long as you you you experience and and and and you chart different stuff, I think also the employees for themselves they find out more and more actually where they are suitable in a in a hotel. And and this is the beauty of hospitality. There are just so many roles that somebody can grow into until you find your your place in this world also and and and find find a a position that makes you feel comfortable. But it it barely happens and I think the majority of the time

Benjamin (: 53:11

People appreciate this ongoing support that they get and this ongoing recognition opportunities and and and most importantly, earning potential that they have, right?

Justin (: 53:19

Right. It's a it's a powerful statement. the way you put it, because being able to increase the bottom line to have an impact on your PL can also really help with the culture internally, how you treat your employees and you know, and and champion that and obviously having great culture, having great performance is like a huge win for the hotel. We've talked a lot about.

humans and and the people behind this, I want to talk a little bit about the technology, right? Because it's increasingly entering the frontline experience and includes like performance platforms or, you know, real-time recommendations for certain guests. Where does technology, you know, genuinely help frontline hotel teams today?

Benjamin (: 54:04

Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (: 54:12

So, the way how we look at it, we use technology to create better awareness about individual performances. We want a front desk employee or a server to be fully aware of the results that they generate, of the value that they create for the businesses and for the teams. So, our our engagement tool is actually called Engage, which comes from team engagement because it's really designed with the one purpose behind increasing the team engagement.

We want agents at the front desk, for example, to be excited to connect on the app every single day because they're excited to see the money that they earn. Or maybe they're excited to see that they're have improved two or three positions in the leaderboard. And maybe somebody today is the third best performing staff and they can be proud of themselves, right? Same for servers. We want servers to be excited about maybe for the first time, have the opportunity to earn incentives based on, you know, average check revenue targets that they have. We want them to be excited about

You know, also the learning that AI is recommending them to watch because AI now that we have and the way how we use it is analyzing the patterns from the employees. And so with that support which we call AI coaching, yeah, that obviously also is very motivational because maybe as a server, I didn't know that I was lacking wine sales and that my average in wine sales is far below the target. So I appreciate a system or restaurant manager or let's say our AI to support them, communicate to them.

They need to focus on specifically this area to improve the overall results, right? Which then leads to more recognition, better career opportunities because they produce good results, more money. And so that's that's that's how we see technology. that's how we want to use it. It is not to replace the service, it's not to automate the service. For us, it's really about giving employees better tools that they are excited to use because they can see the end results by themselves as well. Because many times.

Management knows everything, but they barely share results with the employees. But here the star is really the employee, the front end emp employee, and and and the better visibility you create for them, the more they will take actions by themselves. As a re as a manager, you don't have to motivate them anymore down the road.

Justin (: 56:19

Right. AI definitely will make frontline teams more effective. That's a hundred percent. And we are in a human business, relationship business, and I think that personal touch will never go away. However, as technology improves, you know, we're seeing a lot of performance met performance platforms that are

taking these initial upselling opportunities way before the guest is checking in. They are recommending knowing that you previously stayed and have spent X amount of dollars at a specific property and then predicting what they want and then upselling before they arrive to the hotel. So I'm curious I know like I said we're not trying to replace frontline but we could end up with fewer frontline employees. But you know employees

Benjamin (: 56:46

Yeah.

Benjamin (: 56:55

Yeah yeah.

Justin (: 57:10

Who are more skilled, perhaps better informed? what do you think of this change in the in the in the coming years? Do you think the personnel at the frontline has to adapt? And you know, will the frontline person skill set be different in the in the coming years, or how is that gonna be all played in you know in terms of that commercial viability for a hotel?

Benjamin (: 57:37

Yeah, yeah, definitely will change, especially with with AI. I think it's very hard to predict how the hotel of the future looks like. I I I heard some articles also in China where, they start to think about brands that are purely run by AI and by robots without any human touch I wonder, how that will work for somebody willing to pay five, six, seven hundred dollars a night. So I think especially for the luxury segment and let's say the upscale and upper upscale segment, I think that will not go away.

Maybe for the mid scale segment and below where there are limited room inventories, different limited room categories, limited add-on services, maybe they might look into more a full solution for automation, yeah, which is perfectly fine. I think the preaviable experience of course is important, but I also want to you know, just give food thought for thoughts because

Many times guests hotels don't have the email address from the clients because if it's an OTA bookings, they how can they contact them? And secondly, I don't know about you, Justin, but I receive a hundred and ten million emails per day. Yeah. I'm not able to read through all of them. And when I book a a hotel from you know, the hotel group I'm a I'm a member of, you know, I barely look at these offers. not because I'm not interested or because it goes against what we believe it is. No, it's it's also an important part, but

It's just it makes a difference when I arrive and there's somebody that makes a a a a a good connection with me and makes me an offer that makes sense because I didn't know that they had that. That just will always outperform especially in the full service in the full service space. But pre-revival is important and we are working on that as well. We're launching a very exciting solution also towards the year of this end, towards the end of this year, with a proper pre-revival solution so that we can also then be in that space of pre-arrival automation, but then at the same time

Most importantly, continue to invest in the frontline team members, the front desk and food and beverage to maximize that value because human to human upselling always will outperform any pre arrival solution by a hundred million times, hundred percent. Guaranteed.

Justin (: 59:42

Absolutely agree. I think there's a human element that will never leave hosp there's a human element that can never leave and I c I I don't expect it to leave. This makes this industry so special and I think it makes it even more special living in the world of AI and robots and how people view that this might take over the world. But I would love to hear sorry, go ahead.

Benjamin (: 01:00:02

Exactly. I mean Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I just wanted to also say, like from a from a from a guest perspective, right? If I travel all the way from Europe or from the United States, first time coming into Bali, and you know I've I've booked a nice beach resort, full service, right? Do you really want to have a computer in front of me to the check-in, right? or a QR code at the table to order through the mobile phone, right? Or do I want

maybe experience somebody local in a beautiful local uniform, speaking the local language, English, you know, dialect charm. I mean that's like that's like that's experience, right? I mean you don't want to travel all the way to Bali from from Europe and then you only order food through a cure code. But I mean y I think j people generally are interested to engage with new cultures and you know that's I I think it just won't go I don't think it will go away anytime soon.

Justin (: 01:01:02

Yeah, absolutely agree. And since we're talking about Asia a little bit, we mentioned China, Bali, and you've seen it from a very global perspective. do you think there are some eight Asian hospitality? Do you think we understand it better than perhaps some Western operators? are there things as part of our culture that allows Asia perhaps to generate and perform better?

in terms of what you guys are training and stilling in employees.

Benjamin (: 01:01:37

that's a very very good point. I mean, definitely in Thailand, for example, you don't have to teach employees on how to smile because they have it in their blood already, right? Thai hospitality. Same in Indonesia, Vietnam. People generally are very, very friendly already by default. That's how they grow up, right? maybe in other places, maybe you have to teach them a little bit that it's important to agree, to say yes, to say

please write good morning etc etc but yeah i mean it it depends but i think i mean europe is is definitely going through a a little bit of a of a of a challenging time obviously right hospitality wise you know I think Middle East is obviously very exciting in hospitality because they lots of places let's say before the the the issue started in in the Middle East, right?

I mean, you know, staffing I don't think is is as far as I know, has been a big issue for in places like Dubai or even Saudi Arabia where they can where they're pretty good in in getting smart hoteliers, the packages are usually higher. There's a lot of you know, expat employees and and obviously they're all very interested in driving more values, earning more incentives because that's what they literally are there for, right?

so th they're Middle East, when you compare it internationally for us, the Middle East hotels get the best performance also from frontline revenues, yeah. Because for them is yes, they want to earn more money, they want to learn skills, that they are there for work, not so much for right enjoyment. in in other places you have to educate a little bit more, yeah. But then you have beautiful products in in Southeast Asia, a lot of beautiful resorts, new new resorts, right? Versus maybe sometimes in Europe you have

very dominant family businesses, family owned hotels, right? Where they think they have been doing this for the past 300 years and and that's the way to go. And so they don't want this, they don't believe in that. So every every market is is so different. So at the end you just gotta find somebody that also believes in what you do and then it's easier to work. There there's no there's no need to push anybody to, you know, to work with you if if they have so much of a if their philosophy is just completely different. So yeah, you just go with the flow.

Benjamin (: 01:03:49

I would say.

Justin (: 01:03:51

Wonderful. now we're going to my favorite part of this episode. It's the rapid fire round. I'm gonna ask you a couple questions. You can just answer whatever comes to mind first. No explanation needed. but feel free if you want to. All right. first question What is the most underrated hotel revenue opportunity?

Benjamin (: 01:03:58

Okay, wow, yeah.

Benjamin (: 01:04:06

okay.

Nice, that's a good game. Okay, let's talk.

Benjamin (: 01:04:19

frontline revenue.

Justin (: 01:04:21

What is the most overrated hospitality technology?

Benjamin (: 01:04:28

AI.

Justin (: 01:04:31

Financial incentive or public recognition.

Benjamin (: 01:04:37

Both.

Justin (: 01:04:38

One hotel brand you admire for frontline services?

Benjamin (: 01:04:47

Say it again, sorry.

Justin (: 01:04:48

What is one hotel brand you admire for their frontline service?

Benjamin (: 01:04:54

of course, four seasons where I grew up. Yeah, they are definitely very pro pro service and pro people.

Justin (: 01:05:00

And what is one lesson every general manager should understand?

Benjamin (: 01:05:07

sometimes the problems are actually the opportunities and if you want there's a solution to to to everything, yeah.

Justin (: 01:05:16

And you have to find Benjamin for that. Now, before we finish, what is one change a hotel could make tomorrow that would improve both revenue and the guest experience?

Benjamin (: 01:05:19

Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin (: 01:05:30

Well, I'd say first of all, believe in your team. Yeah, believe that they can take good care of your guests, but also believe in the potential that they have. So if you are a pro people, if you if you like to work with your employees, if you like them to see obviously being developed, etcetera et cetera, if if you start to have this this passion and hopefully that that that light, then I think that that will make long term a big investment paying paying off very well for you.

Justin (: 01:05:57

All right, great advice. And what are you most excited about in the next chapter of frontline performance across APAC?

Benjamin (: 01:06:06

Well, it's definitely the transition now into becoming a total revenue per available room solution for our partner hotels as we start to touch point and touch base and support several frontline, truly all frontline touch points of a hospitality a business, right? So be it reservations, be it food and beverage, be it spa, be it a front desk. So any customer facing department, yeah, for us is a is an opportunity.

To really transform and make hotels more profitable.

Justin (: 01:06:39

And where can listeners follow your work and learn more about the Frontline Performance Group?

Benjamin (: 01:06:45

follow me on LinkedIn, obviously. I think that's the best way. you will always see where we are, what events we're going to. and then from there obviously sign up for for Frontline Performance Group as well. our marketing team always shares exciting announcements and most importantly they share the events where we are at, so you can always visit us.

Justin (: 01:07:03

Wonderful. So I'm gonna put those links in the show notes below. But Benjamin, what I've taken away from this conversation is you know that the strongest commercial interaction and hospitality should obviously not feel like a transaction. It should feel like someone noticed and you know, they noticed why the guest was traveling, they noticed what might make their stay easier or better, and they notice an opportunity to create more value, right?

Benjamin (: 01:07:19

Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 01:07:32

And obviously have more confidence to make the recommendation without applying any pressure. So, you know, perhaps the real question is not whether hotels should sell more, it's whether they can listen better, you know, coach more consistently, and you know, give frontline employees the tools to act on what they already see. So

Benjamin (: 01:07:33

Exactly.

Benjamin (: 01:07:56

You got it. Bingo. Justin. Awesome. I wish you are a I wish you are a multi property GM of a hundred hotels. I'm sure you would sign up.

Justin (: 01:08:04

Ha ha well you are by my side because I learned so much in this conversation. Benjamin, thank you so much for joining me on the Curious Concierge today.

Benjamin (: 01:08:15

Awesome. Thank you so much. Really good show and I wish you all the best, Justin, also in the future with your podcast.

Justin (: 01:08:20

Thank you.

Awesome. That was great. Thank you so much. That was that was solid. I think you're super eloquent. I think there's some really good, like juicy advice in there and lots to take in, you know. I think especially when someone is like a hungry employee, like if they don't realize that there's the lack of structure or there can be structure, then they might just feel like they're you know, not really improving their game. Right. And so this is really exciting stuff and

Benjamin (: 01:08:24

You're welcome.

You're welcome. Awesome.

Justin (: 01:08:53

such a different story to tell compared to you know your traditional you know experiences or kind of like what a GM shares. So thank you so much.

Benjamin (: 01:09:05

No, no, awesome. I really appreciate actually the way honestly it's my first podcast. I've never I never did a podcast before. so I didn't know what to expect. And you know, I asked the the team before, like, how should I prepare? They say, No, just be yourself. I'm like, okay, well then I guess that's it. No, but I appreciate how how you ask questions, how you engage. yeah, it's it's really nice. Yeah, you are a great host and I hope you get a lot of views and and become very suc even more successful with your podcast. 100%. Awesome.

Justin (: 01:09:19

Yeah.

Justin (: 01:09:31

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Well, I will let you know once this is all edited. What I usually do is I'll share it in a a drive with some reels and then I'll let you know the timeline for posting. So I've I have about twelve episodes all lined up for starting September. So yours will come out at some point. so I have a question for you. Is there

Benjamin (: 01:09:40

Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (: 01:09:53

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 01:09:57

a specific timeline or maybe like certain thing you might want this to come out. like let's say you're going to a conference or there's something special, then you have like a little bit more, you know, collateral to share online.

Benjamin (: 01:10:10

okay, got it.

I appreciate it. no, actually it's it's it's it's fine. I mean I didn't think about it. Thanks for offering. I think you know, whenever it comes out, it comes out. That's that's perfectly fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I will then use it in future.

Justin (: 01:10:17

Okay.

Justin (: 01:10:22

Okay, perfect. So in a cup okay, well let me know if anything changes. you have my email. in the meantime I will work on editing and then I'll share that with you in a couple weeks and then we'll take it from there.

Benjamin (: 01:10:37

Awesome. Sounds fantastic. Thank you so much, Justin. Appreciate it. Have a good night.

Justin (: 01:10:40

You too. Thanks for spending some time with me tonight. See you later. Bye.

Benjamin (: 01:10:44

You welcome by see ya.